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supern0va 1 hours ago [-]
The Pioneer Saloon in Paisley, Oregon is pretty solid, considering it's in the middle of nowhere in the Oregon outback. It's actually a popular stop (not that there's a lot of options) for folks who drive down to Burning Man from Seattle and Portland, so it will be seeing quite a few more visitors over the next few weeks.
davidw 45 minutes ago [-]
That whole area makes for a fascinating trip. It is really, really empty and remote.
There are some inland sand dunes near Christmas Valley as well.
looknee 57 minutes ago [-]
Just ate at The Tavern in Abingdon, Virginia last night. I'm biased since I grew up here and am back visiting, but truly a beautiful little town with some stunning nature and hiking nearby.
The Tavern itself has a great food and wine service for such a small town!
noboostforyou 54 minutes ago [-]
Safari's reader mode is a godsend for this article. I just want to see a simple list of "state - bar - date" but this is like those recipe blog posts where you need to sort through a bunch of filler until you finally get the recipe after numerous paragraphs of fluff.
xoxxala 1 hours ago [-]
I've been to the Palace in Prescott, AZ. Neat place. I was told by locals that during the 1900 fire, the patrons picked up the actual bar and carried it out of the saloon to save it.
FatherOfCurses 3 days ago [-]
Re: Callahagn's in Mobile, AL starting as a "members only" club.
To quote Gene Hackman in "Mississippi Burning" - "Member of what?"
scrubs 3 days ago [-]
Strange: of all things possibly connected you mentioned that movie and Gene Hackman. I've had both the brain w.r.t. to the current administration.
atmavatar 2 hours ago [-]
I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.
- Groucho Marx
Tangurena2 2 hours ago [-]
In the 1800s, there were a lot of fraternal organizations. Some of them were social clubs [0], some provided for funeral arrangements [1]. About the only remaining one of these is (are?) Freemasonry.
One should remember that the US had very strong anti-Catholic feelings [2] until the early 1900s. Irish-Americans remember that back then, they were not considered "white" (neither were Italians or Spanish speaking peoples - because those countries were predominantly Catholic). There was even an anti-Catholic political party called the "Know Nothings" [3]. The Ku Klux Klan were not the first anti-Catholic terrorist organization in America.
Even economists got into the belief that Catholics got what was coming to them because they weren't Real True Christians™ [4].
> According to Weber (1904, 1905), it was John Calvin who introduced the theological doctrines which combined with those of Martin Luther to form a significant new attitude toward work. Calvin was a French theologian whose concept of predestination was revolutionary. Central to Calvinist belief was the Elect, those persons chosen by God to inherit eternal life. All other people were damned and nothing could change that since God was unchanging. While it was impossible to know for certain whether a person was one of the Elect, one could have a sense of it based on his own personal encounters with God. Outwardly the only evidence was in the person's daily life and deeds, and success in one's worldly endeavors was a sign of possible inclusion as one of the Elect. A person who was indifferent and displayed idleness was most certainly one of the damned, but a person who was active, austere, and hard-working gave evidence to himself and to others that he was one of God's chosen ones (Tilgher, 1930).
> Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990).
> Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930).
Source [5].
On a different note, Kansas used to allow each county to remain "dry" after Prohibition was ended [6]. In those counties, it was legal for restaurants/clubs to serve alcohol to "members" (they were called "class b clubs" [7]). Frequently, joining such "member only" organizations cost something like $1 to $10. I used to travel on business in Kansas in the 80s and I remember dealing with this legal fiction.
There was never a point in American history where the Irish were not considered white. It's just that racism is amazingly not limited to whites vs non-whites.
sparrish 56 minutes ago [-]
During covid lockdowns, several of the local, non-chain restaurants switched to 'members only' clubs because the way Colorado's covid emergency proclamation was crafted, the 'clubs' could stay open and continue to server food and drink.
My wife and I joined one at a nearby Mexican place so we could keep our date nights when all other restaurants were doing takeout only. Membership was free, they gave us a paper card we flashed at the door to get in.
devilbunny 26 minutes ago [-]
That was (is?) how it was in dry counties in TX. Join the club for $1, you can get drinks. Membership valid for a year.
devindotcom 1 hours ago [-]
I don't think Gene Hackman was suggesting it was a Calvinist joint
BigTTYGothGF 1 hours ago [-]
> Even economists
What do you mean "even"?
james33 45 minutes ago [-]
Eischen's is a favorite among locals around Oklahoma City. Not for the bar but for the whole fried chickens you can get there. It's definitely worth a visit!
stooart 3 days ago [-]
It's really nice seeing those pubs the are really connected to a tumultuous history.
The oldest pub I've been not too far from is "The Old Ferry Boat Inn". The structure isn't that old, dating to the 17th Century. It is claimed to date to 560 AD, but if you believe that, I have a bridge (very old) I'd like to sell you.
hobojojo 2 hours ago [-]
People getting continuously drunk since 560 AD somewhere seems a little more believable than the oldest pub in a state managing to be a speak easy during prohibition.
WhatsTheBigIdea 2 hours ago [-]
For sure pubs ran through prohibition.
McSorley's Old Ale House on the Lower East Side of Manhattan was definitely fully operational during prohibition. You can read about it on Wikipedia, but my preferred reference is Joseph Mitchel's "McSorley's Wonderful Saloon"
hobojojo 2 hours ago [-]
Such bars exist but I think these bars are less likely than average to be those bars. Regrounding after prohibition was particularly likely for these locations and many of them are going to be smaller than average.
alephnerd 28 minutes ago [-]
Knickerbocker Saloon (and Lafayette and Purdue, or as my sibling calls it - Purdon't) slaps.
Midwestern college towns are great.
calvinmorrison 2 hours ago [-]
King George in Bristol PA is quite a good place
"As George Washington's army approached Bucks County in 1781, the image of George II was replaced with a likeness of General Washington"
Paisley is home to one of the largest ranches in the US: https://crookcountyhistorycenter.org/2022/10/one-of-largest-...
And nearby they found some extremely old coprolites: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paisley_Caves
The somewhat nearby Christmas Valley area saw some the world's oldest footwear discovered in a cave https://www.oregonencyclopedia.org/articles/fort_rock_sandal...
There are some inland sand dunes near Christmas Valley as well.
The Tavern itself has a great food and wine service for such a small town!
To quote Gene Hackman in "Mississippi Burning" - "Member of what?"
One should remember that the US had very strong anti-Catholic feelings [2] until the early 1900s. Irish-Americans remember that back then, they were not considered "white" (neither were Italians or Spanish speaking peoples - because those countries were predominantly Catholic). There was even an anti-Catholic political party called the "Know Nothings" [3]. The Ku Klux Klan were not the first anti-Catholic terrorist organization in America.
Even economists got into the belief that Catholics got what was coming to them because they weren't Real True Christians™ [4].
> According to Weber (1904, 1905), it was John Calvin who introduced the theological doctrines which combined with those of Martin Luther to form a significant new attitude toward work. Calvin was a French theologian whose concept of predestination was revolutionary. Central to Calvinist belief was the Elect, those persons chosen by God to inherit eternal life. All other people were damned and nothing could change that since God was unchanging. While it was impossible to know for certain whether a person was one of the Elect, one could have a sense of it based on his own personal encounters with God. Outwardly the only evidence was in the person's daily life and deeds, and success in one's worldly endeavors was a sign of possible inclusion as one of the Elect. A person who was indifferent and displayed idleness was most certainly one of the damned, but a person who was active, austere, and hard-working gave evidence to himself and to others that he was one of God's chosen ones (Tilgher, 1930).
> Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990).
> Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930).
Source [5].
On a different note, Kansas used to allow each county to remain "dry" after Prohibition was ended [6]. In those counties, it was legal for restaurants/clubs to serve alcohol to "members" (they were called "class b clubs" [7]). Frequently, joining such "member only" organizations cost something like $1 to $10. I used to travel on business in Kansas in the 80s and I remember dealing with this legal fiction.
I know - TMI. Sorry about that.
Notes: 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benefit_society
1 - Was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Friendly_Society And is now an insurance company. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foresters_Financial
2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United...
3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
4 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic
5 - http://workethic.coe.uga.edu/history.htm
6 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_laws_of_Kansas
7 - https://www.ksrevenue.gov/abchbclassb.html
My wife and I joined one at a nearby Mexican place so we could keep our date nights when all other restaurants were doing takeout only. Membership was free, they gave us a paper card we flashed at the door to get in.
What do you mean "even"?
The oldest pub I've been not too far from is "The Old Ferry Boat Inn". The structure isn't that old, dating to the 17th Century. It is claimed to date to 560 AD, but if you believe that, I have a bridge (very old) I'd like to sell you.
McSorley's Old Ale House on the Lower East Side of Manhattan was definitely fully operational during prohibition. You can read about it on Wikipedia, but my preferred reference is Joseph Mitchel's "McSorley's Wonderful Saloon"
Midwestern college towns are great.
"As George Washington's army approached Bucks County in 1781, the image of George II was replaced with a likeness of General Washington"
https://prints.nrm.org/detail/518488/rockwell-the-new-tavern...